It echoed my sentiments all the way. Of course, I might want to define the Gospel along the way, but I really enjoyed and affirm the post. Thanks for the encouragement.

-Steven

It echoed my sentiments all the way. Of course, I might want to define the Gospel along the way, but I really enjoyed and affirm the post. Thanks for the encouragement.

-Steven

It echoed my sentiments all the way. Of course, I might want to define the Gospel along the way, but I really enjoyed and affirm the post. Thanks for the encouragement.

-Steven

It echoed my sentiments all the way. Of course, I might want to define the Gospel along the way, but I really enjoyed and affirm the post. Thanks for the encouragement.

-Steven

It was a very positive and upbeat article. Real unity can be built only around the Gospel.

So few churches have this kind of unity even on the local level. One rarely hears about theological unity. I would guess that most of the pastors who attended T4G came from churches that have a great deal of confusion.

Southern Baptist would not even consider affirming regenerate church membership.

"I have always been at least an informal member of Calvinists and Arminians Together! I'm a Southern Baptist!"

This is true, though we're not typically as friendly about our differences in our SBC world as you and the other T4G guys are.

I'd like/love to see some more congeniality in our SBC TOGETHERNESS, but that would mean that the majority opinion would need to at least tolerate those of us in the minority.

Still, I wonder how it would be if the foot was on the other shoe. If the Calvinists were the majority party, would they be just as antagonistic toward their Arminian TOGETHERITES?

Based on how much we Reformed types love to kick the proverbial Arminian in the shorts when we get together, I have my suspicions.

Still, good post, Dr. Dever.

Gunny Hartman, SBC Pastor
www.ProvidenceChurch.info
The Lone Star State

Mark,

I must admit I have agreed with your general sentiments in the history of my own practices. However, something in Jonathan Edwards' farewell sermon makes me question if we are truly right:

"you should watch against the encroachments of error; and particularly Arminianism, and doctrines of like tendency....they (these doctrines) are still prevailing and creeping into almost all parts of the land, threatening the utter ruin of the credit of those doctrines which are the peculiar glory of the gospel, and the interests of vital piety....it will threaten the spiritual and eternal ruin of this people, in the present and future generations. Therefore you have need of the greatest and most diligent care and watchfulness with respect to this matter."

Are there not two front lines? The front line of the Gospel, and the front line of doctrinal error? In Edwards' view, Arminian doctrine fosters pride and self-confidence, rather than humility and God-confidence. How can we foster togetherness with those who may work toward "ruin"? Or would you be critical of what Edwards warned- if so, how?

This is an important yet difficult subject. Thanks for starting the conversation!

Brian,

I am no expert, but from my study, the term "Arminianism" in Edwards' day referred to a general liberalized theology (e.g. Charles Chauncy) that was much more humanistic than the evangelical Arminianism Mark is talking about.

As far as Mark's basic point, I agree with it completely. The point of unity for evangelicals is the Gospel of justification by faith alone in Christ alone.

The irony is that some Calvinists and Arminians preach their party line so much that they obscure the very Gospel they believe they are promoting.

On one hand, I agree with Mark's call for togetherness under the Gospel and with what Chris Hutchinson is saying. I too have many non-Calvinist friends whom I would not question their salvation, their love for the Lord, and their passion for His glory.

But, on the other hand, isn't much of what 9Marks, ACE, Founders, etc. address and stand for reactions or responses to the rise and influences of Pelagian/Arminian theology in the churches and the Christian's life? Just look at who comprises the staff at 9Marks, the editors, the interviewees, etc. they are almost always (minus Paige Patterson) Calvinists.

So, while the fellowship of the Gospel at 9Marks is not limited to Calvinists only, it is under the assumption that non-Calvinists agree with what the Calvinists see and understand.

In other words, it's not a, "We Calvinists will go half-way and you non-Calvinists go the other half." Nor is it "We Calvinists will agree with you Non-Calvinists. You guys don't budge." Rather it is, "Here is what we Calvinists see. Now if there are any non-Calvinists who agree with us, great. Come and join us."

Will et al,

I don't mean to dominate the comments section, but it seems to me that 9Marks and ACE are much more motivated by the Sufficiency of Scripture for instruction in church life, rather than by, say, TULIP.

It is also true that Calvinists have often been the ones leading the way back in these matters, e.g. David Wells' critique of the evangelical church's capitulation to culture. One assumes that this has something to do with confidence in God's sovereignty and therefore that His appointed means of grace work just fine, when accompanied by faith.

But serious Arminians can jump right on board with this general approach without having to get into soteriology proper, I think. Again, the common denominator is FAITH in the Gospel and God's power and goodness.

In fact, anecdotally, I have heard reports from time to time of Reformed families being more comfortable in local Methodist Churches than the PCA church, precisely due to differing postures towards bringing culture into worship and church life.

I'll shut up now and let others talk!

FWIW,
Chris Hutchinson
Sr. Pastor
Grace Covenant PCA
Blacksburg, VA

Chris,

No question that the ministries mentioned earlier are primarily founded and motivated by the commonality of those who subscribe to the full sufficiency of Scripture as the complete authority and instruction for church and Christian life.

And it's surprising to see in the 9Marks church database list of some churches that I know personally are not Reformed or Calvinistic. So it's a great encouragement to see that 9Marks, whose focus is on Reforming churches and developing healthier churches, are embraced and welcomed beyond the Calvinist circle.

But I'm just wondering if that means someday can a non-Calvinist serve on the 9Marks staff? Or as an editor? Is the Sufficiency of Scripture all that's needed, or is one's soteriology (TULIP) also a prerequisite? If we're saying that, "Yes, 9Marks ministry is open to non-Calvinists," does that also include those on the inside?

If the answer is, "Well, Reformed soteriology is a prerequisite to coming on-board," then it's the latter of the 3 options that I mentioned previously, "This is what we see. If you, non-Calvinists, see it also, please join us in the conversation."

But I agree with your point, Chris. Thanks for the response.

Sola Scriptura!

What is the gospel according to an Arminian?

What is the gospel according to a Calvinist?

Is there a difference?

If not then why the titles?

Just a question for thought:

Spurgeon once said,

"And what is the heresy of Arminianism but the addition of something to the work of the Redeemer?... [T]here is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispens[ing] grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption [ie, "limited" or definite atonement] of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross..."

So, if Spurgeon is right and what you think about Calvinism is crucial to whether you understand the Gospel rightly, how can Calvinists and Arminians have fellowship in the Gospel? Are they really believing and preaching the same message?

Mark,

Sorry to be so late (and I know it's not your practice to respond) but after reading your togetherness post I was unclear as to what you were suggesting Calvinists and Arminians get together for. Did you simply mean "be friends?" Or did you mean get together in order to do or promote something, ala T4G? Just curious. But I think that would define the discussion a bit more.