Yes, anything other than reformed theology is weak and watered down and has a god that is weak and impotent and depends on us. In this kind of theology God can't act unless we let him. This is one thing that led me to Reformed Theology. That God is sovereign and all powerful and exalted and majestic. That he can do anything he wants to do anytime he wants to do it anyway he wants to do it. That He is not suject to man and cannot and will not be manipulated by man. That's the kind of God I serve. Hallelujah!!! Now that's a rock to stand on.
Robin

"This God is sovereign and exercises His sovereignty. This God is centered on Himself. And this God is understood to be morally good in being so Self-centered."

It is ironic that you charge Arminians with saying God NEEDs to be worshipped and then make this assertion. This assertion and Piper's major thesis are among my primary objections to the current Calvinist mindset. What kind of narcissist is this kind of God?

It makes no sense to me.

Regards,
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

Very good insight. I never would have guessed this as being number one. But it makes perfect sense. It's nice to know that our God is intellectually satisfying as well as incredibly gracious!

Don,

This is the whole foundation of Calvinism and Piper's main point. For God to exalt anything other than himself for worship would be blasphemous and idolatry of the worst kind. God, unlike anything that He has created, has the right, in fact, the obligation to be stuck on himself. He is committed to give Himself to humanity because this the most loving thing he can do, and our exultation of Him is the best thing we can do.

Thank you for this series. It has been a joy to read and see the development of this resurgence. We do truly drink from wells we did not dig.

Wow. I'm just waiting for the negative bloggers to weight in, but as for me, I think you hit a home-run here. The 'Sovereignty of God' is the proper medicine for the wounds of the ages.

Thank you for this excellent series!

Indeed Tony.
Piper in particular dealt with your question Don perhaps most directly in a sermon at Harvest Bible Chapel's "Straight Up" Conference (2004). If you can get that sermon on Nebuchadnezzar, it may be a helpful response to your comments.

It always seemed weird to me that I was always revising what the Bible seemed to be so clearly saying. I got tired of asking, "What is the Bible *really* saying here?" Then, with my *very first* exposure to Calvinism and what it was really saying about depravity and sovereignty, I got it. And I never looked back. Calvinism is good hermeneutics. Everything else is subjecting the Bible to one's own preconceived notions, and none of that holds water, not textually. Mark, you nailed it when you mentioned the theodicy angle. That's what turned me at age 29. After that, it's like I found the key to the whole Book! Praise God! Eph 3:17-21!

Mark -
This post is an excellent capstone to a very helpful and riveting series. Thank you for writing it!
Hoping and praying for an even greater resurgence of soul-winning, robust, reformed theology in Toronto and Canada, too!!
May our Great God make His glory known.

Don Johnson,

I loved you in Miami Vice!

Mark or someone else please help me out here. I keep re-reading this and I'm not sure I'm getting is straight. Isn't the paragraph of questions where he says "what kind of God NEEDS to be worshipped?" supposed to reflect what the Deists, Buddhists and atheists are now asking? I don't think Mark is "charging Arminians with saying, 'God NEEDS to be worshipped.'"

Don, you should have quoted the rest of the paragraph, "And this God is understood to be morally good in being so Self-centered. In fact, it would be evil, wrong, deceptive for Him to be centered on anything other than His own glory. There is no apology about this."

The Deists, Buddhists and atheists are asking such questions because Arminian theology is not telling them what the Calvinists are, that God is worthy to be worshipped and he deserves our worship. Because they are not saying this, the skeptics think that God has an ego problem and He NEEDS to be worshipped.

Anyways, great insight Mark. Thanks again for making sharing this series with us!

In addition to Mark's point (which is spot-on), I believe the rise of militant Islam has also played a role in the resurgence of Calvinism, for many of the same reasons noted with regard to the militant secularists: the limp-wristed, "won't you please love me" God (and accompanying theology) of modern Arminian Evangelicalism is no match for the bloodthirsty idol adored by Islamists. Only a sovereign God will do.

Mark - Thanks so much for this series. If this is not the most "immediately obvious" influence, it is, I think the most important.

Amen, Mark. My progress in the Faith has always been heavily marked by times of suffering. It is those times which remove the theologies that can be shaken and leave behind only the theology that cannot be shaken.

Jeff

I have thoroughly enjoyed the series. I'm sure there are other means God has used besides these 10. But interestingly, I came across a quote that points to an 11th reason.

I started looking more closely at my 1960 edition (by Westminster Press) of Calvin's Institutes edited by John McNeill. And the editor makes the following comment in the introduction on pg xxxviii (of my edition).

"Recent decades have witnessed a rising interest in, and respect for, Calvin's theology, and the effort to understand and interpret his teachings has become a marked feature of theological writing."

So perhaps a revival of interest in academia eventually filtered down to the public in this matter. And ironically, Calvin himself through the ongoing importance of his Instituties of the Christian Religion, has had a significant role in the increase of a theological movement named after him!

Mark,
I think you are being too modest to not include the resurgence of Calvinism in the SBC with influential men like Mohler making consistent rounds in the secular media.

The move of calling Arminianism the "earliest ancestor" of "modern Limitedness of God and Process thinking" seems to me to be a slippery and off-base move. The basic premises which make Arminianism what it is are incompatible with the the basic premises of both of those views. In other words, when you move to those views, you've moved off Arminian ground. To subtly link these positions together is to misrepresent them.

Mark,

Thanks again for your faithfulness in thinking critically about this topic, for it has been both helpful and an encouragement to us as a church that has recently "re-planted" with both the sovereignty of God and the gospel as our foundation. As we have done so, we have witnessed dear friends who would hold to an Arminian view of Scripture depart, often without even considering God's election as a remote possibility. So thank you for encouraging us, once again, with this last post.

Don - if you haven't listened to Piper's message "Discerning What Pleases God: Himself" I encourage you to look at Sovereign Grace Ministries' New Attitude Conference from this year and listen to it a couple of times...I pray it would not only bring clarity of thought but also refresh your soul!

Back again, away all day dealing with a situation that could prove difficult.

I should add to my earlier remarks that I have appreciated the series. In my mind, I have quibbled with the impact of one or two of the factors Mark mentioned, but in the main, I think his analysis is correct.

Now back to the point of contention: I notice that those interacting with my comment are citing the Book of Piper for their authority. Apparently all the publishers of my Bibles left that one out!!!

Now that was meant partly in jest, but there is a point. Piper and some Calvinists say that it would be idolatry for God to be interested in anything other than himself. It really would be nice to have actual Scripture that says that. I have been underwhelmed by Piper's defense of this notion, and none of you have actually offered a Scriptural reply to my objection. On such a serious point, don't you think you should?

And I guess I should say that I am not really looking for a fight! But it is the narcissistic view of God that turns my stomach the most about Piperism.

Regards,
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

Mark,
When you write "Limitedness of God", you are referring to what proponents call "Openness of God", yes?

JC

The God-centeredness of God, among others:
Ephesians 1:4
Isaiah 43:7
Romans 3:24-26
Philippians 1:11
2 Thessalonians 1:10 (one of my favorites)
Job 38-41; 42:1-6

I'm wondering Don, if the God-centeredness of God "turns your stomach," who or what should be at the center? You? Me?

Don,

"You shall have no other gods before me."

Would you argue that this command has no relevance? Would "considering something else more worthy to be centered on" not be disobedience to this command? If people should consider nothing else more worthy of worship than God in order to be obedient to him, how would it be reasonable to think that God could consider something other than himself to be more worthy?

Americans don't anymore believe that people are naturally good, and they don't believe in free will. Decades of crime, slavery and death caused by drugs, the sexual abuse of children, the Clintons, parents divorcing for totally selfish reasons, Columbine, porn, etc., etc., etc., have created a cultural conviction about the criminal darkness of human nature that really started to take hold in the late 1980s.

And, as atheism began to become more influential, it eroded people's faith in the existence of free will. You even have jokes against free will appearing on Youtube (the SNL satire of Dora, Maraka, asks about her cat, "If Mittens' actions are controlled by his beliefs, and he has no control over his beliefs, then does Mittens have free will?" Star Trek: The Original Series has been replaced by Alien and Babylon 5.

Calvinism has greater "explanatory value" than Arminianism, given these changing views of man and nature. The God of Calvinism doesn't support fatalism, He breaks through it because He is not bound by any secondary causes. Arminianism's lame view of man's sinfulness is contradicted by practical experience, and its depiction of God as handcuffed by humanity's powers makes God worse than useless.

Don,

One thing that has helped me with this concept is to remember that God is not just one but also three in one. It would be very hard to deny Scripturally that the Father loves the Son and Son loves the Father and that the Holy Spirit is that love flowing as the third person. That is all over the Bible. Do you need some verses for that?
We need to remember that God is so far above our little self-centered mind -meaning not God-centered like God's is. Certainly, I want to be there! Help me O great God! You are the center!

Exodus 3:13-15
13 Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” 14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” [1] And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” 15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, [2] the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

You are right, Don. Scripture should never be assumed. Support for God honoring himself above all else starts in Genesis, "In the beginning, GOD..." and ends in Revelation 22, "the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever." From start to finish, "I AM." "I AM the light of the world." "I AM the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

So then the question becomes, "WHO ELSE?"

Mark,

You say that the Armenians have a weak and distorted answer to the problem of evil. I think I agree with you to a point. But what then is the Calvinist's response? What does the Calvinist say to the parent whose child has just been raped? Do we simply shrug and say that God's ways are above our ways? I am not trying to pick a fight here - I am genuinely curious. Do we, with Job, simply cover our mouth and admit that we are not capable of understanding why God allows the things he does? Or is there another argument here that I am missing?

Thanks - and blessings.

I've really enjoyed this series. I am 20 years old and reformed, so it's been helpful to learn more about the wider trend I'm a part of. Thank you!

The reason given in this series that resonates loudest with me is the inerrancy crisis. My father was a free will Baptist who rejected election and definite atonement while holding on to eternal security. But he taught me the one thing that caused me to become a Calvinist - "the Bible is true". He bled much in battles in our denomination for that doctrine and I came to see the truth of the Bible's truth in many ways in his life and from his teachings. But I embraced a system that he was largely ignorant of because he incessantly taught his children that the Bible is true. And even when I became a pastor teaching things he did not, he was thrilled that I got everything from the Bible. He critiqued my argumentation and gave me his blessing because he knew I got my doctrines from the Bible, because it is true.

As one of the young, restless, Reformed people, I have to wholeheartedly agree to all 10 reasons, though to this one in particular. Great series!

I think Mark is right on target in this post and I believe another factor in why so many young people are in the Reformed camp is that it is the antidotal answer to the postmodern culture in which they have been brought up.

In observing the postmodern culture it appears that the underneath the surface the postmoderns are really looking for four things; stability, security, sincerity, and intimacy. A theology that is God centered, that begins with a soteriology based on the sovereignty of God, that rightly explains the love of God gives them just that.

They get stability because the word of God is true, security because God is sovereign, sincerity because God is faithful, and intimacy because of His unmerited electing love.

Mark,

Could you please clarify something for a friend and I?

Did you mean to communicate in this last installment that you think people are switching to Calvinism because the picture of God is more satisfying?

Or were you saying that people are switching to Calvinism because the claims and biblical support for Arminianism are being found wanting and people are recognizing that Calvinism and it's claims better hold up to scrutiny and are more aptly found in the Bible?

I know you're busy, I won't blame you if you don't answer at all, but if you could then I would only need a very short, concise answer.

Thank you for your time and the ministry that God has given you.

Jared

Mark,

If you were to do an 11th post on this subject, I would think it would have to be the internet. Communication between those who hold to reformed theology, regardless of denomination, has exploded due to this medium.

Come see us in AL!

Thanks to those who engaged my comments above. As I said, I don't want to get in a fight over a relatively minor difference. I was away for a couple of days for an ordination, then all day in the pulpit today, so I just wanted to acknowledge those who responded. I have copied the specific notes and will mull them over. That may result in a post of my own over at my place.

In any case, my basic objection was not to the content of the proposition so much as to its similarity with the suggested and rejected Arminian proposition. They both seem to propose a God who needs something beyond himself, so I reject both of them.

Thanks for the interaction.

Regards,
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

Thought-provoking... Excellent!

I agree with all those who have praised the excellence of this series. But one question still lingers:

Where are all these young Calvinists? It seems from what I can glean from various comments and URLs that most of the young Calvinists are converts from Arminianism in traditional Bible belt regions. With only a couple of exceptions (Keller in NY, Driscoll in Seattle), reformed Christianity is making little headway in the less-churched regions (North-East, North-West, anywhere in Canada). Where I am in Toronto, the mainline churches are dying, the traditional evangelical churches are largely stagnant, a few younger "evangelicals" are finding the new Emergent variety of liberalism temporarily attractive - on their way out the door.

And no-one has mentioned that the last couple of generations has seen such a sad shift from orthodoxy to psychologizing in the CRC and some other Dutch-tradition churches, that the ebb we celebrate in the new-young-Calvinist trend is balanced by a flow in some traditionally Calvinist areas.

All this points to the need for what Mark Dever pointed out in one of the earlier entries: concerted Calvinistic evangelism in the mission fields that are closer to home.

I would welcome any correction, if my observations are off-base.

More power to all you who are in churches that are not ashamed of the Biblical gospel; but pray for us struggling in the wastelands....

pastor dever,
thank you so much for your willingness to step up and flesh out some direct and not too lengthy(though it would be ok for lengthy)thoughts on the resurgence of Reformed theology. I do agree with the other twenty somethings who posted that Passion '98 was the bench mark for many of our generations introduction to reformed theology by way of John Piper. God has been so gracious as to provide teachers such as yourself, Dr. Piper, and Dr. Mohler in our growing up and understanding of what it means to be a believer. Be encouraged that your pursuit of Christ is transforming the lives of many in my generation as we humbly and feebly attempt to "work out our faith with fear and trembling". Blessings on each of you and the ministries that God has blessed you with among His people.

JS Kinney wrote, "Calvinism is good hermeneutics." Amen and amen!

Roger Bergs: I understand your sense of despair, but things are not *quite* totally hopeless! Don't forget Piper in Minneapolis, first of all. But I'm out here in Vancouver, the land of the lotus eaters, and even here we've got Regent College, at least one traditionalist Anglican church, and one large, 5000-attendee inner-city church that is teaching the sovereignty of God, exclusivity of Christ, and innerancy of Scripture week after week—and people get saved there! We even hosted a conference that Piper, Packer, and Driscoll spoke at this spring, to inspire Canadian pastors to give expository, Christ-centered preaching.

...And don't forget that wonderful Canadian blog, challies.com!

I think we can also say that many of us young Calvinists (I use the term but personally I can't stand it! As Don pointed out... Calvin isn't really the point.) come out of fundamentalist backgrounds where questions were discouraged and the arrogance choked us to such an extent that we vomited out all we've ever been taught.

And now many in my generation who grew up in fundamentalist churches are finding all kinds of new ways to approach these major theological and philosophical questions- a few are following Dr. Beckwith and returning to Rome or even Byzantium. Some have gone the emergent route (that was actually what God initially used in my life to draw me back to the church, though since that time I've definitely turned in a more Reformed direction, but the initial step for me was reading McLaren's New Kind of Christian), still others are following Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins into a new atheism.

Finally, many are discovering the books of men like Piper, Sproul, MacArthur, and Mahaney and that is leading us into the Reformed tradition.

The main things I appreciate most about the Reformed Christians I've met and the teaching I've heard is that it encourages questions rather than dismissing them (I think a large debt is owed to the ministry of Francis Schaeffer at this point). Additionally, the Reformed Christians I've met and serve with are not interested in passing judgment on others or trying to act as if they know everything. Drinking alcohol is not the unpardonable sin. Acknowledging what is good in a book before criticizing it is common. And no one would dare to do what my former pastor did by judging the state of someone's soul. (I was once told not to read C.S. Lewis because he wasn't saved) At this point, I think the larger L'Abri ministry and influence- which continues now at Covenant Seminary through the ministry of Jerram Barrs and the Schaeffer Institute should also be mentioned.

Finally (and this is the main point that distinguishes the Reformed theology I've met from emergent theology in my mind), the strong emphasis on God's sovereignty allows us to have real answers to the questions we're asking which are both logically and biblically defensible.

Thanks for the series Pastor Dever, it's been great. Also, thanks for the wonderful example of unity that you, Dr. Mohler, Pastor Mahaney, and Dr. Duncan show in Together 4 the Gospel!

For me personally, Pastor Albert Martin has been the biggest calvanistic influence on me. But his influence seems small in the world at large.

Mark

Many thanks for this blog - I agree with Thomas Clay that the "11th" influence - certainly for me - would be the internet. Although I have been saved for 25 years and Reformed for more than 20 of these, my interest had sadly "waned" a bit - until about eighteen months ago - when I found all these great Reformed websites! 9marks.org, desiringgod.org, Reformation21.org, etc etc! What an encouragement to see how God is raising up so many men of influence in these dark days! Hoping to be at your and Mike's day conference in London on September 24 and to meet you at long last!

Blessings.

Nigel

This point is the straw that broke the camel's back for me in my journey to reformed theology from an Armininan SBC perspective. The pivot came for me in the form of a simple, childish question:

Q: "What is the most powerful thing in the universe?"

A: "God."

Q: "If God desires all men to be saved, and I refuse his desire simply by the force of my own desire, then who is more powerful - God or me?

A: "Me."

Since I knew that the second could not be true, I joined the ranks of the reformed, walking the path behind the very men and ministries that you have outlined here over the 10 installments.

Thank you for a very insightful series!
Randy

This point is the straw that broke the camel's back for me in my journey to reformed theology from an Armininan SBC perspective. The pivot came for me in the form of a simple, childish question:

Q: "What is the most powerful thing in the universe?"

A: "God."

Q: "If God desires all men to be saved, and I refuse his desire simply by the force of my own desire, then who is more powerful - God or me?

A: "Me."

Since I knew that the second could not be true, I joined the ranks of the reformed, walking the path behind the very men and ministries that you have outlined here over the 10 installments.

Thank you for a very insightful series!
Randy

Fascinating stuff; I've made the journey to reformed faith since being compelled to Christ at age 26. I was in a jail cell; read a charismaniac book that introduced me to Jesus, and the Spirit (who I did not know existed) accomplished His work, and without a human being present other than this desperately lost sinner; an incredibly loving God brought me to Jesus. As the journey continued, I recognized that, being dead in sin, there was nothing I could do; so it was all Him. I still don't "get" it, nor do I "get" a lot of the faith; but I trust it.

God is in fact so self-centered, that He sent His only begotten son to die for man. Yeah, that sound like a sacrifice on God's part to me. If Jesus really was God, then He really suffered for us, and committed a selfless rather than selfish act.
Secondly, Calvinists can never answer how God is limited. They claim that God has all power to do anything that He chooses, when the world makes clear that He has chosen to limit himself. God hates evil, and naturally destroys all evil immediately. If He were really the uncontrolled sovereign Calvinists dream of, He would destroy us all immediately upon our first sin. Rather, to serve the final end of bringing man and God together again, God limits himself and allows us to sinfully wander through life as He tries to lead us home to him. A God without limits on His power who was totally good would prevent evil from ever existing. As evil clearly exists, we know that God has placed certain limits on Himself for the time being.

I have started a series of posts on baptism at my blog. Come and check it out and post your ideas, too.

http://prochristorege.wordpress.com

"I was born that way--I can't help it." The mantra of the radical homosexual activists is the same as that of Augustine (who said "give me chastity, but not yet") and Calvin, namely "I was born that way" and "that's how God made me." What a pathetic excuse for sin. God didn't make you born gay and God didn't make you born a liar, nor did God make you born a philanderer. You were not born that way--stop blaming God for your choice. Ecclesiates 7:29 says "Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions." One of those inventions is Calvinism. Man always seeks and invents ways to excuse his sin. "I was born that way" is his favorite excuse, so much so that he encoded it into a religion that blames God for man's damnation rather than man's individual choice. "I can't help it I'm a sinner--God decreed it from eternity past--he elected me to sin sins sin and burn in hell, so how dare you even suggest I should repent when I was born unable by divine decree!" What cry baby immature excuses are passed off for 'orthodox' 'Christianity' these days.

Greetings in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Messiah!

The problem with both Calvinism and Arminianism is that they have taken the things of God which are as high above our understanding as the heavens are above the earth, and reduce them to a system that is understandable by the fleshly mind. Both predestination and reprobation are taught in Scripture. Do I understand it fully? No, not in the least. Nor does anyone else. The real problem is that we (God's children) continue to insist on dragging God's ways down to our level. Both Calvinism and Arminianism proclaim great truths of the faith, but both also have said a number of unfortunate things, and twisted various Scriptures in order to remove what seems difficult to reconcile. I believe God predestinates...because He said so. I believe that I can fall away...because he said so. I like the Westminster Confessions little statement...we rejoice in his promises, and tremble at his threatenings.

Randy (rsims) said:
The pivot came for me in the form of a simple, childish question:

Q: "What is the most powerful thing in the universe?"

A: "God."

Q: "If God desires all men to be saved, and I refuse his desire simply by the force of my own desire, then who is more powerful - God or me?

A: "Me."

Since I knew that the second could not be true, I joined the ranks of the reformed, walking the path behind the very men and ministries that you have outlined here over the 10 installments. - end quote

Very good Randy. Then I guess ALL men will be saved. Or do you deny God's will and His power?

I wonder if the "internet" would make the top 11 list? For me, being exposed to those who were outside my circle of churches, was what did it! As I read online, following authors, and theologians, then runing to scripture to test their words, listening to sermons etc. All on the internet! For me this was a huge player in my conversion to calvinism. I praise God every day He revealed his sovereignty to me.

What a good God.