A few years ago I had a young man who came and wound up being our assistant pastor. He had been the youth pastor at a church, but in addition to the beat down he got from not being on the same page as the rest of the leadership, he had an epiphany that led to his departure.

He said something to the effect of, "I couldn't invite my friends to my church because I didn't think it was a good church."

He realized at that point that he shouldn't be there either.

Yeah, if you wouldn't go there or wouldn't invite your friends, something is seriously wrong.

Gunny Hartman, pastor
www.ProvidenceChurch.info (SBC)
The Lone Star State

I appreciate the caveat at the end of the post regarding coming to a church in the hope of bringing change. But the statement strikes me as generally true... perhaps such statements could be used by pastors who desire to see their church change to spark discussion within the congregation on how such churches need to change.

I understand not taking a position at a church where you wouldn't attend, but do you have any advice on what to do if you already work at church and either your theology changes or the churches does?

I once had a pastor tell me that he wouldn't attend the church if he wasn't pastor there (by appointment, no less). I thought it was a sad statement.

I do appreciate the quote and Bob's point.

I love his music and look forward to the book.

Tony

We have a talented musician who is a member of our church and who has been asked to be part of the music staff for a large mainline demonination church. The position would not prevent them from attending our main worship service but would entail a few other conflicts. The person has no desire to leave our church and sees this only as a job, not agreeing with the theological position of the hiring church. We have warned them of conflicts of interest and competition for affection, but don't feel that this is something that we can make binding on them, as it doesn't disrupt any of our requirements for membership. Any thoughts?

I do understand this concept for a Music Minister, Youth Pastor, and every other position except the Senior Pastor. If Pastors are not willing to go to the undesirable places than who will? How does this tie into, where God calls you, you go?

That is very wise advice. I have been on staff at 4 churches in my relatively young life. Two were part time stints and the other were full time. Thankfully I am currently at at church where I would consider attending and joining apart from being paid. I actually thought about this before I took the call...but that was the first time I thought about if I would be a good fit for the church.

Every church has its own culture and ways of doing things and all pastors are not good fits for all churches.

Unfortunately, sometimes once you're on staff you come to this realization.

"We have warned them of conflicts of interest and competition for affection, but don't feel that this is something that we can make binding on them, as it doesn't disrupt any of our requirements for membership. Any thoughts?"

That's tough. I served at a church where we had a very talented musical family get "paid for play" at a Church of God church down the road. Needless to say, the church family's commitment level to us (their home church) was very low. As a pastor on staff, I grew to sinfully resent both the family and the other church because I felt that this "paying for playing" was robbing both our church of some spiritual gifts, and the family in growing in Christ with its family. Thankfully, after a while the family quit and we actually saw them again.

Goes to show that training men for and calling them to leadership in the context of the local church might be a better way of doing things than the appointment/search team paradigm we're all used to.

Rae,

There is a lot of truth to what you just said!

Matt

In general, I agree with the original post and the comments. But, I would add one more caveat. Just as it might be OK for a senior pastor to be at a church he normally wouldn't attend because he hopes to lead change, it might be OK for a music minister if he was on the same page as the pastor.

As noted in the original post, the music minister is unlikely to lead change on his own, but certainly could be a major factor in supporting the pastor's lead.

By the way, just to be above board and to honor the comment guidelines that I missed earlier . . .

My name is Rae Whitlock and I'm a member of Grace Central Presbyterian Church in Columbus, OH.

I am a pastor. If I wasn't called to bring biblical reform to the church where I serve, I would not lead my family to attend there. I'm not sure where we would go in our area. Perhaps I would consider planting a church.

Are there other Pastors out there who feel like this?

The only thing I feel comfortable inviting people to is the preaching/worship service. I'm afraid if they attended Sunday School at my church, they'd never be back.

Oops, missed that church affiliation thing.

Charlie Wallace
Children's Pastor
First Baptist Church, Columbia, SC

This is really a pregnant question with lots of possibilities. One scenario that has not been addressed is that of a pastor/worship leader who is a professionally trained musician. How often does it happen that evangelical churches cannot attract and/or keep quality musicians? In our 'worship wars' we have driven out organs and organists, choirs, and classical instruments. Where are these people to go to work? Where should they worship? Should they simply "check their brains at the door" and sing in unison while second rate musicians lead the congregation in song with words projected on a screen?

Another factor in all of this is money: too often we conservative evangelicals are cheap when it comes to paying these folks.

While it is tragic when a gifted, believing musician leaves a doctrinally sound church for one that is not as solid but appreciates quality music (and probably pays better) I can hardly find fault. More than once I have learned of organists with a Master's degree (or better) in performance leave a local PCA church for the PC-USA. Yes they often need to hold their noses during the sermons but at least they can find a measure of fulfillment in their God-given vocation.

Dave Sarafolean
Christ Covenant PCA
Midland, Michigan

Fiat Lux made a good point. If the worship leader had the same philosophy of ministry as the pastor (I would say "pastorS"), it would be great for him to serve in that way. I'm sure the pastors/elders would love to have in serve in that way - complementing the ministry of public and private teaching.

Craig Johnson
Pastor/Elder
Christ Community Church
Plainfield, NH

My only caveat to your post would be interim situations. When you go in knowing it is a temporary situation that is an entirely different matter. But in a position where you want longevity in order to have longevity you it should be in a church where you would want to worship. My first church I learned after the fact that I wouldn't want to attend there. It seemed to be the longest year of my life.

I wasn't the only one who felt that way, because now 13 years later it is sad to say that church no longer exists.

I'm not so sure about this... what's so special about the role of 'Senior Pastor' that means that he is allowed to ignore the principle? Perhaps the principle should be the other way round? You shouldn't attend a church you wouldn't work for - after all, everyone in our churches should be sharing in the work of service (Eph4:12).

If I am the senior pastor of a church I wouldn't attend, what does that say about my leadership and example? Do I have an ideal church idea that I am unable to demonstrate and lead the people toward? Am I just an employee of a church that simply wants its pastor to just be there? Is my own life an example of what I think church should be? How long must I persevere in leading the church through change before I decide that it won't happen and I need to leave?

I am currently the senior pastor of a church I probably wouldn't attend if things weren't changing. There are days when I figure I need to be patient and lead by example, training other leaders and "winning" the congregation one bit a time. There are other days when I feel we are so far off from what I believe would be normal (or ideal), that I wonder how long I can stand it.

Tough one!

Georges Larabie
Église Baptiste Évangélique du Bon Berger
Ottawa, Ontario

What about secretaries of a church? Or is this simply for pastors

Sarah,

I am the ministry assistant in a church, and for me it is a calling. I couldn't do it in a church I wouldn't attend, because I put so much of myself into it. It is so much more than a job to me, that to be in that position in a church I didn't want to attend would not be possible. If my only option for being in ministry was to work for a church I didn't want to attend or else take a secular job, much as I love ministry and feel that is where God wants me, I would have to take a secular job and attend a good church, rather than work for a church I wouldn't want to attend.

Ann,

I disagree. I am the church secretary for a church I don't attend and I have worked here for 11 years. The church I work for is like family to me and I am heavily involved in it's ministries and outreaches. I pour myself 110% into my ministry (job) at the church I work for, irregardless of the fact that I don't actually attend it myself. The Lord uses many denominations to bring people to a saving knowledge of Himself.

For the record, I am a member of a Calvinist, Reformed church (and serve there, too) and the church I work for is Arminian.

So yes, it CAN be done and has worked well for many years. God is the One who sets the boundaries of our habitations.

I have gone a step further, not accepting missionary support from churches I would not attend. If we are truly in a ministry partnership, I feel we need to be like-minded in approach. This does not mean I give each Pastor an extensive doctrinal survey, it just means I keep my eyes open for potential conflicting philosophies. While we should not conduct a legalistic (and vain) search for disagreement, I believe we should at least commit to operating by conviction in our associations.