I first heard Ben Arment talk of The Whiteboard Sessions at his blog...it will seriously be an amazing day!

www.benarment.com

Is the bible sufficient? Do we serve an ominpotent, sovereign God? Does God need man's "gimmicks" to save sinners?

I think that is the question here when we decide to cooperate with other churches. Do these pastors that take pragmatic, the ends justify the means approaches bring glory to God or man? Should we cooperate and validate other people's ministries?

It is confusing to me and possibly to others when a person who advocates a 9 marks church speaks at the same conference with someone who does the opposite.

We have a pastor on this list where his church's praise band has sang "Friends in low places" during worship service and the band played AC/DC's Hell's Bells (though they didnt sing it) during a service where the pastor was carried to the stage in a casket.

Which leads to my question: does this sort of "Jerry Springer transcript" sort of preaching and showmanship really attract people to the Gospel? Or does the Holy Spirit draw people to salvation through the hearing of the Gospel?

Though I am a lowly layperson, I am disappointed that Dever has chosen to be a part of this pragmatic conference that minimizes the power of the Gospel and of God himself. Dever's presence lends a sort of validation of some of these showmen, i mean "pastors"

Sam,
I am quite uncomfortable with the tactics of a few of these pastors who will speak at this conference, however, I always see these types of events as an opportunity to speak the truth.

I am sure Pastor Dever will represent the gospel well, and this will surely be beneficial for everyone in attendance.

Although I have no idea what he will say, it probably will be a needed compliment to what some of the other pastors say.

Sam,
I am quite uncomfortable with the tactics of a few of these pastors who will speak at this conference, however, I always see these types of events as an opportunity to speak the truth.

I am sure Pastor Dever will represent the gospel well, and this will surely be beneficial for everyone in attendance.

Although I have no idea what he will say, it probably will be a needed compliment to what some of the other pastors say.

Sam,

As a general rule, you want to be very careful about the way you speak about other men's ministry. Though I obviously have grave reservations about some of the things that are done in these churches, I am deeply grateful to God that he has used these men to spread his gospel. We should also be deeply grateful to these men for sacrificing and striving to see the gospel go forward. I don't know all of them personally, but I would venture that many of them may be much better husbands, fathers, leaders, and disciples of the Lord than I will ever be.
Does that mean I approve of their methods? Not at all. Does that mean that I think their methods aren't at times wrong and unhelpful? Not at all. But I am thankful that God uses crooked sticks (like me) to strike straight blows.

Mike,

Thank you for that reminder. It grieves though to see man elevated over God. Some of these men copied ministries of others down to plagiarizing their sermons. So why does the conference get a clone of the original? Just go to the source.

Also, it disturbs me that there seems to be a celebrity culture developing among the conference curcuit today. Built on the backs of the local church where these men serve. You can see pride creep in and the local church becomes a means to elevate a pastor to somewhat of a celebrity among the church growth group. Drawing a crowd is easy. What was it that Spurgeon said? "Amusing the goats or feeding the sheep"

Sheer numbers should never be used as the sole standard to measure the job the pastor is doing. But that is the case we see today. Pastor a church that is large through pragmatic church growth methods and you get rewarded with speaking at these conferences. Some of these men at WiBo (what a hip name )will just regurgitate the methods they learned from Warren, Hybels, Young Jr, and Driscoll on how to draw a crowd and preach a "relevant" topical sermon because many of these men think it is lazy to preach expositionally.

So what is being advanced here more? The Gospel or Man? Where these men more concerned about growing a church or spreading the gospel? Remember all men that serve in the pulpit are not truly called by God. Especially in the current fad of church planting we see today.

I rejoice on how God has called his Elect in these churches in spite of some of these men. But i grieve when i see them dishonor Jesus and His bride by the use of their methods.