Unfrozen Caveman Pastor
I must not understand this very well, because I agree with everything both of you are saying (OK, I only skimmed Leeman's post. I have a full time job.)
But my favorite part of this discussion is the guy who called Mark out in the comments for not having the academic chops to handle this conversation. It's a unique idea, not many people would think to take the "you're under-educated" approach there.
Maybe Mark's post should have read:
"Ladies and gentlemen, I'm just a simple pastor from Kentucky."
"Your academic world frightens and confuses me! Sometimes the honking horns of your traffic makes me want to get out of my car and run off to the hills or whatever. Sometimes when I get a message on my fax machine I wonder, Did little demons get inside and type it? I don't know! My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts."
"But there is one thing I do know. N.T. Wright is wrong. Thank you."
Maybe the funniest thing about this post is the astonishingly low percentage of your readers who will actually get your reference to an old Saturday Night Live skit.
But I get it, and I think it's hilarious.
Posted by: Britt | May 1, 2008 8:45:43 PM
I think the point is for Dever to express more humility in his dealings with a topic like this... I agree Dever has credentials for this conversation, but knowing some folks closer to this topic than Dever himself, he's often not given a listening ear b/c many of his statements people do find misguiding, for numerous reasons. But one thing I hear a lot about Dever from academics themselves, is that his rhetoric could improve greatly if he "would remove the chip on his shoulder."
I think pastors in general are in a hard position to criticize academics, and vice versa, and there is a lot of misunderstanding. Nonetheless, I would appreciate Dever demonstrating much greater humility towards those he disagrees with.
His reputation is not great among many because of the style and tone of his arguments... I hope he reads this and shows more humility in his disagreements in the future.
Posted by: John S | May 2, 2008 6:00:03 PM
The whole 9 Marks ministry could use a heavy dose of humility in all their actions... This blog is reflective of the often arrogant mindset within reformed camps... Moreover, this post is a mockery.
I find it amusing that nobody at 9Marks can take a bit of criticism... somehow, someway, they're always "right"; and this is very, very annoying
Posted by: 9 Marks of Humility | May 3, 2008 8:45:01 AM
"I find it amusing that nobody at 9Marks can take a bit of criticism... somehow, someway, they're always "right"; and this is very, very annoying"
Almost as annoying as those who take anonymous potshots on blogs without the courage of conviction to use their own name, or almost as annoying as those who condemn mockery and then sign off with a mocking screen name.
Posted by: Arthur Sido | May 4, 2008 7:28:43 PM
I don't agree with all the statements above, but I would agree that 9 Marks (esp. Mark Dever) should consider the manner they communicate. It often comes across (though not directly intended) as prideful. I think the ministry struggles in balancing truth with love in its writing, and often seems to be more on the criticism side of the platform, rather than providing practical solutions...
I attended TG4, and felt Mark's talk wasn't really too helpful... the topic is interesting, but again, I felt lacked practical applications.
Posted by: Brent B. | May 5, 2008 7:27:27 AM
Michael Mckinley- Please issue an apology for your demeaning post... this is inappropriate and has not led the conversation to mature area. Mockery of this sort is poor-taste.
Posted by: G. Howard Berton | May 6, 2008 10:52:07 AM