Greg, I know you can speak to this issue from both sides of leadership and I think that's pretty valuable here. I also appreciate how you've noted that both roles (pastor/elder and 'loyal opposition') can fall into sin. I also would agree with your assessment that the loyal opposition is mostly a bad position to be in and a church member should avoid it if possible.

One point I wanted to bring up has to do with what to do when the pastor if a church is not acting in a way that is godly and biblical. Especially in this series, it may be valuable to consider that many of the people working for church reform who are not pastors may be dealing with pastors who are seriously lacking in their understanding of the Bible, or morally deficient, or some combination of both.

What if someone has been a long-time member of a church who calls a pastor, and the pastor begins to lead in ways that are not consistent with Scripture? This might take place over a short time or long. In that case it seems to me that the church reformer must choose between leaving the church, or working to change it. If choosing to work for change, is there any way to avoid becoming the loyal opposition you're talking about?

There are likely many instances where authoritarian pastors quickly paint anyone who disagrees with the loyal opposition brush in order to lessen their influence. It would be pretty difficult to avoid becoming the loyal opposition in this instance.

When the choice is between being the loyal opposition and leaving, I'm not sure leaving is always the best answer. At best, leaving would only lessen the biblical influence present in the congregation and enable an authoritarian pastor. Especially someone who's a long-time member of a church with a history of biblical fidelity, leaving would be a pretty difficult decision.

I think in that situation, you must make it a point to engage the pastor. I am seminary trained, and spent 2 years as a CPE resident (70 hours a week in the hospital) and 4 years learning from a very Reformed and Vibrant church... I am amazed at the lack of understanding that many who are educated pastor have. Many I went to Seminary with and they seemed to do much better than I. Engage, exchange and unless he shows signs of hostility and authoritarianism, try to stay. If he won't engage, alter or things are just sliding the "wrong way" too quickly, tell him and the other leaders what your concerns are and if there is no openess, leave.
I very much understand you dichotomy of feelings about authority. It does amaze me that most elder led and ruled churches actually have more congregational input than the typical SBC churches...should I say more discussion and working out problems. In my past RBC, we only have one scheduled per year for the Minsitry Plan/Budget. We spent 3 meetings on it one year...as long as there were questions and suggestions, they were seriously considered. In my Deacon Ruled/Committee Led Congregational church (SBC) we are always feeling pushed to get things voted on regardless of the potential problems. There is an air of "just don't complain, and it won't be your fault and no one will look at you funny if the meeting goes long."
Greg B

Greg B,
I share your preference and agree with your statements about the benefits of an elder-led congregation.

I my concern is similar with your comment as it is with the original post. You say, "tell him and the other leaders what your concerns are and if there is no openess, leave."

Are we really to be so quick to leave? Isn't that, at least at some level, surrendering some important territory to the enemy? Aren't there some times when it is better to stay and fight?

Hey Brent,

Good to hear from you! That's a great point you raise. In these posts, I'm just assuming that the pastor of the church is not malicious, not heretical, and not horrifically unbiblical---just not reformed, either.

But I also know there are plenty of people whose pastors are doing unbiblical things. I'd say that in that situation, you have to do two things:

First, ask yourself if the unbiblical thing you're seeing might be bearable for the sake of the larger cause. There are lots of things that might be askew in a church that nevertheless don't rise to the level of atrocity that they absolutely can't be borne with. I'm not going to try to describe where that line might be, but it's wise to just give some thought to whether you might bear with something you think is wrong in order to pursue larger goals. Pick your battles carefully.

Second, if you decide that whatever it is really can't be borne with, yes, talk to the pastor in private. Worst thing you can do: Stand up and make a passionate, set-piece speech in a business meeting in an effort to catch the pastor off-guard. These things are much better handled face-to-face. And even after that conversation(s), you may have to go back to step one and decide if this is so abominable that I have to make a last, public stand and then leave.

Last thing: I think (?) such leave-worthy issues are relatively rare?

Gg

As a female church member I will never be in leadership but I share responsibility for the life of my church. (Eph 4:12, 13; Phil 1:27; 1 Cor 12: Ro 12; e.g.). Reform can take place by leaders (using the "if you build it, they will come" model) or by members (individuals being transformed and encouraging the same in one another); but it can also be a work of mutual effort, which I think is a rare gift of the Holy Spirit working in both at the same time. God put us in a body to live together and work out His commands to love one another, spur one another on, carry one another's burdens, etc., irrespective of whether we are getting our way in every circumstance.

In the case of member(s) who are concerned about the spiritual state of their leadership, they should follow the Matt 18 model, remembering that the church is responsible for the teaching they accept. But if the disagreement is not explicitly a matter of evident sin, the member should entrust themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good. Members should obey all the dictates of scripture regarding loving and submitting to biblical leadership; pray for them, encourage them, etc. and do not back-bite. In short, be a humble servant to the church [God's institution and God's people] and be faithful. The Lord, I trust, will lead each individual to know where He would have them serve.

Who said be so quick. Spend sometime trying. I have been in a church for 14 months since it seemed things were going wrong (reforming pastor left) and 7 since a not so reforming interim came on, and I still am only living because for other reasons I am moving. A friend who did leave spent Over a year talking and listening...never disruptive, but always trying to talk to the interim and deacons. Eventually he saw his family was suffering and not seeing a healthy church...stated earlier, lots of lip service, not much to back it up. He had a meeting with the deacons and the pastor and made sure everyone knew his concerns and then quietly left.
Greg B

Great Posts Greg, Keep them coming. I myself and attempting to reform my own youth group by become more of a leader and engaging my friends and fellow students about theology and things alike. Its hard but I can see God working in the lives of some of my friends already. Although in a youth group its not really reforming its more informing.

It appears that we are living in very, very dark times. Authoritarianism and spiritual abuse by those in "church leadership" positions is rampant. And not only that, the "dumbing down" of the sheep is mind-boggling. That is why websites such as:

www.wickedshepherds.com are needed.

People need to know what is truly happening in many , many churches across the land.

Insofar as concerning the Hebrews 13 passage quoted above, the article "Do Elders Rule?" is very fitting.

www.wickedshepherds.com/doeldersrule.html

Insofar as to whether or not to leave a church, the article "When Should a Christian Leave a Church" is applicable too. It's at:

www.wickedshepherds.com/whenshouldachristianleaveachurch.html

There are dozens of articles exposing these spiritual monsters for who they really are. Using the marriage institution as a tool and a club to beat spouses into submission to church leadership and church policy is also heavily exposed on this site.

It's a sad day indeed when articles need to be written on these issues; warning the sheep of the many wolves that are abounding - devouring the flock.

Lee

I am a deacon in a Mennonite church In Northern Idaho, It is sobering to here all the discontent between leaders and the people who are being led. The devil loves this stuff, and it seems like it would disappoint God. We need to make sure that we respond to both sides of the issue with biblical principals, and make sure that we don't make our choices out of reaction to other peoples error's or sins.

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.