I can't agree with you more.

Even though we're not multi-ethnic/cultural/national like your church, my preference would be to avoid any appearance of equating Christianity and patriotism. In Southern suburbia, that's no small chore.

We are going to do a patriotic presentation - complete with a brief simulcast message from the president - and a red, white, and blue laser light show ... instead of a sermon ... to see how many people we can convince to join 'another kind of church'!

Seriously, I agree with everything you said. We are Christians first, American Christians second. And since being Christian makes being American not really that important, no reason to attract attention to nationality (any nationality) in the worship of God.

Now, if I were able to become a citizen of some cool country like Scotland, that might be another story!

I am in full agreement with you. As a minister of music in a Southern Baptist Church, I have struggled long and hard with this challenge. The big Baptist church in our state's capitol city annually broadcasts their God and Country extravaganza on statewide TV. I find their mixture of worship of God with worship of country repulsive but, without fail, each year someone would approach me to ask why we don't "go all out" like they do.

Our congregation is much more homogeneous than yours and we have many veterans with all services and all conflicts represented, current and past, going back to WWII.

I finally realized that the gathered fellowship CAN acknowledge our context of freedom and CAN express appreciation to those who have served in the military WITHOUT mixing these up with the worship of God.

Last Sunday, the first 10 - 15 minutes of our gathering was spent acknowledging our freedoms and those who help preserve them using many of the classic forms, pledges, national anthem, flags, recognitions, etc. At the conclusion of that, we pause, then clearly and purposefully change our focus. It is hard work but entirely possible to accomplish this without creating cognitive whiplash.

The fellowship is happy because they can express their patriotic feelings in the context of their church relationships but we work hard to help them realize that the baby Jesus' swaddling clothes and the crucified Jesus' burial shroud were NOT an American flag.

I EXACTLY agree with you. In fact, it being the 4th of July is almost an afterthought in my sermon and service planning. I'm continuing on with my sermon series, we'll celebrate Communion as we always do on the first Sunday of the month, and we'll basically do everything else the same as well.

During seminary, I attended a church whose preacher did the whole flag and eagle thing on the 4th and Memorial Day, and it made me sick, almost literally. I believe he even tied our country in to the Isaiah 43 text, "mount up with eagles wings" - Don't ask me how he did it. I'm still trying to block those memories out.

Yeah
I hate how people sometimes equate God with America. Like, God is American and He is "for" everything America does. Good post.

I'm glad this was mentioned here. I was hoping you all would address this!

Last year my wife and I stayed seated while everyone else stood to sing 3 (atleast) patriotic songs in a row. It was rough.

We have six other days of the week to do something special in the patriotic sense. So why bring something akin to worship of one's country into a time and place dedicated to worship God? If a patriotic service is that important then do it on another day.

Mark

Appreciate the reasons you give for not incorporating a pro-USA rally into your worship service. For anyone interested, Stan Reves (a pastor from Auburn, AL) posted on this same topic and provides some other reasons for not doing the "God and Country" thing this Sunday.
http://reformedbaptistfellowship.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/three-hymns-for-the-red-white-and-blue-thinking-about-patriotic-worship-services/

Appreciate the reasons you give for not incorporating a pro-USA rally into your worship service. For anyone interested, Stan Reves (a pastor from Auburn, AL) posted on this same topic and provides some other reasons for not doing the "God and Country" thing this Sunday.
http://reformedbaptistfellowship.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/three-hymns-for-the-red-white-and-blue-thinking-about-patriotic-worship-services/

I was just flipping through the new 2008 edition of the "Baptist Hymnal" (which has many good improvements, I think) and noticed the inclusion of "O Canada" in the patriotic section. Now Canada Day (July 1) can be folded into the weekend's patriotic services. (Hopefully, "Himno Nacional Mexicano" will be included in the next edition. Otherwise, NAFTA celebration services will be a bit unbalanced.)

Hello,
First, thanks for this blog. I read it regularly and enjoy the content of the web site.

I am an immigrant from Hong Kong, came to the US in 1980 when I was 11, and was saved 10 years later. My parents bought our family to this country at a tremendous cost to themselves, so my sister and I can have opportunities not found in Hong Kong. I am grateful for what my parents did and appropriate what this country has given to me. (Could God saved me and used me in Hong Kong, certainly but by the fact that God placed me here, I had opportunities and a future that would not have been available to me elsewhere.) Perhaps because I am a “foreigner” I am really struggling to understand why there seems angst, almost a sense of embarrassment, among some Christians to be identified as an American or to be shown to be proud of one’s country.

To some extend I understand the first reason above. But the 4th of July is a celebration of the birth of a great country. The fact that there are 20 different people groups in your church shows this. People want to come to this country because it is like no other on Earth. If the US border is completely removed tomorrow, this nation will be flooded with people from all over this planet. Is this country perfect, no! But no nation is or will be perfect this side of eternity. But the fact that we have freedom and opportunities like no others worth celebrating? And certainly as Christian we are not united by country and culture but we live in a country and a specific culture that must be taken into account. Should we not celebrate Thanksgiving, which is very American? Or Martin Luther King Day? Or should only Hispanic celebrate Cesar Chavez Day and African-American MLK day? (I feel kind of left out because there isn’t a day for us Chinese.)

As for number 2, I think that is an over simplification. I would think a well crafted sermon would make it clear that one does not have to do have a yellow ribbon to be a good Christian, just as one does not need a fish on their car, only listen to Christian music and go to every church meeting to be a good Christian. I would think one should not throw out the baby with the bath water.

(If I sound harsh or angry, please forgive me. That is not my intended tone. I am really struggling to understand this cultural trend and the reasoning behind it.)

Denny

@Denny,

I completely agree with you. I'm kinda the opposite of you, I'm an American, through and through, but I've been living in Asia for the past decade (my two daughters were even born in Hong Kong!)

Living overseas has made me really appreciate America and the unique freedoms experienced there. Particularly as a Christian.

I don't equate Christianity with American patriotism - but I do get annoyed, sometimes even sickened by Christians who seem embarrassed to be Americans.

I agree with Denny, to say that you cannot be patriotic in the church without communicating the wrong message is an oversimplification and it underestimates the ability of the audience to understand the distinctions.

My two cents

Well, I'm in likeminded company here, but I can't tell you the number of years I've heard, "Where are our patriotic songs?!"

(Asked in a way that adds, "-------------" at the end.)

I have a red, white & blue bow tie that I might wear on a patriotic Sunday, but that's about it.

I was out of the country one year on the 4th and some in the congregation passed out text & words to the Star Spangled Banner to the congregation which they sang at the beginning.

I find it ironic that you find it non-christian--or non-something--to honor the country which assures you the freedom to do--or not do--so in the context of worship. Since it is the 4th which commemorates the document which pointed out that these freedoms are given by God, not by the state or a ruler or a constitution.

Also, it is somewhat suggestive that you style any such observance as:

"Color guard? Singing "God Bless America"? Draping a giant American flag around the pulpit?"

Very subtle insinuations of right-wing politics and unsophistication on the part of those who do choose to observe a time to commemorate freedom of religion, speech, etc.--God given freedoms.

Surely your worshipers from other countries are with you at least partly because they can enjoy those freedoms here. Many other countries cannot.

We won't be doing any flag draping, or marching either, but we will celebrate our heritage of freedom on a special feast day, just like we do Memorial Day in recognition of those who perserved the freedom, just like we do on other feast days when we take the time to commemorate something special. We thank God for Christ's sacrifice every Sunday, but we still make a big deal out of Easter once a year.

I know that my opinions are quite our of synch with the professors and scholars and other sophistocates in whose presence we all sat in seminary, but that's OK. My devotion is to Christ, too, and to making disciples. (I Cor 1:18-25)

I just thank God that I can do so in a free country, and I want everyone to remember that the freedom isn't free. We won't be singing any patriotic songs, waving flags, or whatever else you may have imagined, but this Methodist preacher will be praying and giving thanks for our nation and the ability--at least as of this writing--to practice our faith and worship without the intrusion of the government. Or christian-hating militias, or whatver.

Grace and peace to you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am an American through and through. I do not think that we should put our country above our God, but God has given us this great country. We are afforded many opportunities for the kingdom that other countries do not have. I belive that any pastor should be able to incorporate a message about God and Country. If anything use this day to show what our country was founded on and what it is now.

I think singing some patrotic songs is a good thing on the 4th. I can see the opther side though. Many conservatives Christians are also conservative politically and the two sometimes are too closely linked.

But I think one is missing an oppurtunity to stress that God and our Christian beliefs should guide us even in political affairs. I think scholars like Hauerwas who state that having an American flag in the church can be viewed as idolatry are helping others divorce their Christians beliefs from the tasks and responsibilities of the real world. I know this is not Hauerwas' view or aim but I think it occurs nonetheless. I think the 4th gives a good time to give a full explanation of what we can and can't do. It allows us to take some time to state that we can feel blessed to be citizens of the U.S. and that are Chrsitianity is not completely divorced from our politics. However we can also teach that being a Christian does not mean one is necessarily an American or right wing politically.

It just seems to me that by not talking about one cannot really fix the problems that have occured because of an over or under emphasis on it.

Gentleman and brothers,

I think that some of the dissention to Mike's original post is coming from the belief that it is this country that gave us something (in this case, freedom), however, we understand that it is God who gives all blessings (Jas 1:17). If the US political system changed tomorrow to a dictatorship, I would still have the freedom to worship God; neither this country, nor its founding documents gave me that right (in fact, the founding document prescribed my Creator-derived inalienable rights as merely life, liberty and pursuit of happiness--this is not particularly scriptural). Every week we may take time to thank God for His many blessings without tying them to any particular holiday (Eph 1:3-14; Gal 5:1,13; Col 2:10-14, etc); nevertheless, for those who think God performed a particular blessing in putting them in a particular country, it remains that is it God who is to be worshipped, adored and exalted--not the country itself.

Blessings to you all, in Christ.

I agree with the original post. I don't think it has anything to do with being embarrassed to be an American or ungrateful for the peace and prosperity we enjoy in this country. For me it has to do with the huge percentage of folks I know who trust country rather than God and who make an idol of the US. If this country were to fall, a great number of people would realize what an idol it has been to them.