My two cents here. I don't pretend to have a question such as this one all figured out, and I look forward to other comments to help correct my thinking.

That said... I think your desire not to make compensation an chief issue is wise. I wouldn't bring it up until things between candidate and congregation are beginning to look "serious." But I would bring it up before the congregation votes to extend a call. I have concerns about the health of a church that does not compensate a pastor well enough to support his family (thus muzzling the ox), or that sees no problem with compensating a pastor below the level of the community or the congregation (thus revealing what they value and worship, and failing to show "double honor").

Another factor in the equation is your understanding of "call" -- there are those who would argue that if God has called you to minister to a particular church or community, then you need to go whatever the money situation might be. In other words, are you convinced that not going to this church/community would be disobedience to God? Or is the candidating process, including a discussion about finances, part of discerning that call? It seems to me that different pastors could approach this matter of call in different ways with a clear conscience.

It might also be helpful to have someone from outside the church who is familiar with the church (in my denomination a district superintendent for example) to share advice and counsel.

Again, my two cents. I look forward to other responses.

I am glad the question came up as I am looking at going into my first pastorate and dealing with this same issue. Though I know what the total is I am looking at how to structure my package. Does this need to be decided before the church votes or is it enough at this point to know what the total of the package is?

I'm not sure why money is such a taboo subject when it comes to ministry. I think this should be discussed within 30 minutes of an interview. This is financial responsibility...something that God wants us to have! I totally understand trusting God but this is a way that God can show us His will. Might there be times when it is God's will to send us through a drought or a valley concerning our finances? Sure...we can learn a lot in those times. But I don't think this is something we have to be afraid of talking about in the church. I believe we should let our needs be known and if a church is unwilling or unable to meet those basic needs for food, clothing, shelter then there is always somewhere else to go.

i just went through the hiring process at my current church gig, so this is fresh in my mind. i found it so odd that churches wait till the last minute to tell you the amount they're paying.

every other job in america has a pretty fixed amount that the worker is going to get paid. it is up front (even on the job description) and - for the most part - non-negotiable.

with a church, you have to wait until both concregation and worker are happy, then the church will give a number that is too low (making the worker feel undervalued) and then the worker asks for a bit more (making the worker feel greedy).

by trying to ignore/put-off the salary issue, churches actually make it a much more difficult thing to navigate.

No answers here, just a suggestion. It'd be great if some of the 9Marks / CHBC guys could chime in with how they talk about finances as the ones doing the hiring to help us readers think better how to serve potential new-hires well in this area.

Our denomination, in New Zealand, has a standard minimum level of support that all pastors receive (with slight increases based on years in the ministry). That can then function as a base line, and churches can offer above this to meet the situation of the candidate. I think this is helpful, both to candidate and to church.

As someone who has been both candidate and search committee chair, and who had a career in the marketplace before entering the pastorate, I think I'd like to offer a slightly different take as a follow-up to my first comment.

For a pastoral candidate to ask right up front about compensation seems unwise to me for two reasons. First, pastoral ministry is not like other professions. As the pastor of my church, I do not want the congregation to think of me as an employee. That is the case in too many churches, and it undermines a pastor's authority. And second, I do not want my congregation to think that I am motivated by money. What I view as good stewardship, a congregation that has been burned in the past might view as greed. If by waiting to discuss it I could avoid either of those problems, then why not wait?

There are circumstances I can think of in which asking about money too quickly does more harm than good, especially with small churches that want to grow, desire a godly man to preach the Word, but cannot afford much. To take both my comments together then, it seems to me that both asking right up front and waiting to ask till a call has been extended are unwise decisions that invite more harm than good.

If a church wants to serve potential hires, then you should have a pretty good idea of the compensation package you will offer before beginning to interview candidates. There are plenty of handbooks and statistics, as well as advice from other churches in your area and your denomination, to help establish that range.

I guess that makes my contribution more like a quarter than two cents.

It is amazing how easy it is to be clear-headed and gracious about salary in the marketplace, but it becomes so cloudy for us in the church. Would it help if we projected onto the church how we would handle it as a Christian in a secular occupation?

Having been through the process three times (as a church planter), I have chosen to not ask at all about the package until I have agreed to the position. This is not so much for fear of their reaction, but for fear that the response would affect my own discernment in regards to the call to this particular locale. My number one concern is not whether they will pay me "enough" (whatever that might mean) but that this is where God wants me to be. If it is, God will provide my daily bread, of that I am assured. The concern I have is that my own take on the amount beyond "my daily bread" might be a hindrance to my discerning God's leading. The practical outworking of this is that I have had three ministerial positions that God has blessed us in, two of which a financial planner would have told us we were insane to take. And, yes, we do live on a shoestring budget, and, no, we have no college fund for our kids, and, yes, I have had to work a second job simply to pay my electric bill, and, no, I don't have a retirement package set aside yet, and,yes, I must admit that anxiety does creep in from time to time (including an occasional cry with the wife) despite my best efforts to avoid it BUT I would not exchange being where God wants me to be, nor the joy of being used to change the lives of those He has put me in contact with for any raise someone might offer me.

I know many would call me unwise but I am afraid that what someone told me may be true: They said that it is coming to be accepted that the best church planters are lay people rather than seminary graduates because lay people are willing to do the work despite the sacrifices required whereas seminary graduates expect the compensation of a secular professional.

None of this is to say that I don't wish I made more money. I do. And I would have rejoiced had I been told that my compensation was to be twice what it currently is. And I wish that I didn't have the financial strain that is on me. I wish that my wife and I didn't spend last week trying to figure out how we were going to pay our bills. BUT I see no biblical justification for basing where I am to minister upon those wishes.

I would,however, love to be proved wrong... :)

Seriously though, read the biographies of men like John Paton and Hudson Taylor and then see if the compensation you receive is the top concern or even within the top five concerns you have when approaching ministry. When I am standing in the shadow of men like these, it simply doesn't occur to me to check my wallet.

I asked at the end of my first phone interview.

Seemed like the right time.

When i met with the church leadership, one of the men asked, "Is the package enough?"

I said, "I think so. Can I ask for more if it's not."

"Sure."

That worked well, and it wasn't weird, awkward, or emotionally painful.